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Author Topic: What Colours To Use For CAST Shadows?  (Read 3510 times)

Tony (ASM)

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on: January 04, 2013, 11:06:38 PM
I've forgotten the guide for creating 'CAST shadow' colours, compared to an objects dark side! Dennis or Nolan, could you clarify for me please?

If I mix 3 tones for a green Apple to cover the light, mid-tone and dark side of the Apple, what colours do I use for its 'CAST shadow' on a white table? Same question for a yellow table?
Put another way, If it was a bunch of Bananas casting a yellow glow on a green table surface, what's the advice for the mix?
 :thankyou:
(I'll bookmark this time!)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 11:14:50 PM by Tony (ASM) »
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


nolan

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Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 02:30:37 PM
the cast shadow will be the shadow colour of the object the  shadow is being cast on, so in your example, you need to mix the shadow colour of the white table


Tony (ASM)

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Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 03:30:09 PM
the cast shadow will be the shadow colour of the object the  shadow is being cast on, so in your example, you need to mix the shadow colour of the white table
Thank you Nolan. Does that mean it's black in regards a white table?! Do I add a bit of the apples dark colour to it?
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


patindaytona

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Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 05:58:36 PM
Tony, the "object" (apple) has nothing to do with the cast shadow..in ANY case. Now, the apple MAY be reflecting some of it's own color INTO that shadow, but that is reflected light...from it.

If the table is say..white, like you say (most likely indoors, right?), remember in most cases cool light/warm shadows and vice versa.          The table is white..ok, so the cool skylight coming thru the window causes a WARM shadow on the table. (the apple is blocking out that blue skylight (it's certainly not sunlight, correct?)
It's indirect light...blue/cool...skylight.       Warm shadow.       Warm is warm. You can make it a slightly warm of any color (maybe the walls in that room have a certain color..so causing that cast shadow to have some of that color as well.   But always maintain that underlying local color (white table).
If it's a yellow table...maintain that yellow over anything else.   It may get dulled down and even warmer (you can't too much warmer than yellow though..so it would probably be a simple Ochre colored shadow.
If the yellow table were outdoors in sunlight, the shadow of the yellow table would be a cool color from the blue sky bouncing into it...that would make it a slightly greenish-yellow. (i.e. blue+yellow.....equals green (maintaining mostly the yellow of course of the table. Got it?
The moment you find yourself mostly satisfied with a painting and think you'll "just quickly" do this or that, that's the moment to stop completely. Take the painting off your easel and put it aside for at least 24 hours, then reassess whether it really needs that tweak.


Tony (ASM)

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Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 12:41:20 AM
Thank you Pat for your advice  O0  I think what I've misunderstood and, have been amazed at being corrected by Sue is, I've been thinking that the object casts its own colour in the shadow! Sue's not an Artist but, clearly she's been flapping her ears and sneaking on Paint Basket because, she said ''if you see the colour of the orange in the white table, it's called a REFLECTION, not a shadow, you tool''!!!!  :2funny:  And she's right! I said ''if the table is white and then I must paint the shadow black''. Again, she corrected me with, ''if the table is white, you add a BIT of black to the white to make a grey, you spanner''!!!
So, I stand corrected and  :blush:  (But, I have one last chance to mention the ambient sky colour that you have mentioned Pat!  ;D


So now I'm clear. A Banana's shadow has nothing to do with the Banana (apart from the shape or REFLECTION!). It's the table's shadow colour that's needed. The white table needs a BIT of black + a bit of the ambient colour (sky etc).


 :thankyou:  for all the help. I've bookmarked the page as mentioned earlier so, now if I forget again, I' know where to come (Or I'll print this off).
Any additional advice is more than welcome because I'm getting on with some practicals now.  :yippee:


« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 12:43:39 AM by Tony (ASM) »
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


patindaytona

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Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 04:54:43 AM
Tony, i know...these things are hard to see even when looking at them..(blue in the shadow). It's one of those things that isn't always apparent to the eye. The reflected light usually IS though (yellow off the bananna).
Just remember what the light source is. If it's not direct sunlight, then it has to be the ambient blue sky color. I think of it as a blue "light bulb".
The moment you find yourself mostly satisfied with a painting and think you'll "just quickly" do this or that, that's the moment to stop completely. Take the painting off your easel and put it aside for at least 24 hours, then reassess whether it really needs that tweak.


Tony (ASM)

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Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 04:58:15 AM
I've been 'doodling'! I asked about the shadow colour in relation to these doodles. The shadows I put in a few days ago didn't seem right. I know why now!






Today I tested to see how quick I could do an outline trial of this bowl of fruit and draw it. I did it loose without the photo tracing. I used HB pencil first then, used a 0.8 (thickest) Pilot ink pen (dries water proof) then a 0.2 (thin lines) pen. I wasn't confident on the cross hatching and I need to practice that technique. I'm not always sure where or how to draw it! Not good for a speed drawing!
I took about 20 mins to draw the fruit bowl and about 20 mins to find my camera to post a pic!  ;D 
Larger versions of each image are available here in the Gallery: http://www.paintbasket.com/members/index.php?action=media;sa=album;in=506




Updated to compare image for the following post by Pat (Thanks Pat ;) )
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 09:36:59 AM by Tony (ASM) »
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


patindaytona

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Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 08:56:59 AM
Like your work Tony. Especially the bottom one of the whole fruit bowl. Remember to darken the shadows slightly more near the object's base. Always look for those little things. They keep everything more interesting when you have those different variations. Make them distinct.
The moment you find yourself mostly satisfied with a painting and think you'll "just quickly" do this or that, that's the moment to stop completely. Take the painting off your easel and put it aside for at least 24 hours, then reassess whether it really needs that tweak.


Tony (ASM)

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Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 09:34:57 AM
 :thankyou:  Pat ;) I've added some more shadow as you advised and It's improved it greatly. I'm still on the learning curve with this so, I appreciate getting feedback. That way I can improve and get to know how things look to others.
I like this pen drawing and I'm doing more practice to get better every day!
Here's that bowl of fruit with more shadows added with the 0.02 (thin) ink pen:


Gallery larger: http://www.paintbasket.com/members/index.php?action=media;sa=item;in=6570
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


patindaytona

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Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 01:46:05 PM
Yes, more volume to it now O0
The moment you find yourself mostly satisfied with a painting and think you'll "just quickly" do this or that, that's the moment to stop completely. Take the painting off your easel and put it aside for at least 24 hours, then reassess whether it really needs that tweak.


Lillian

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Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 01:51:56 PM
Much improved, Tony, I like your drawing.   :smitten:
 Nice bowl of fruit you've got there.  If you eat that stuff you'll stay fit as a fiddle.   :)
"The way to be happy," said Winston Churchill, "is to find something that requires the kind of perfection that's impossible to achieve and spend the rest of your life trying to achieve it."


Tony (ASM)

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Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 01:55:39 PM
Much improved, Tony, I like your drawing.   :smitten:
 Nice bowl of fruit you've got there.  If you eat that stuff you'll stay fit as a fiddle.   :)


I wish Lillian! My trouble is, I like sweets too much. The worse they are for health, the more I love 'em! I like fruit too but when there's a fight for attention between the fruit family and confectionery store, the sweet treats win every time!   :yippee: :D 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 02:09:08 PM by Tony (ASM) »
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


Lillian

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Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 02:03:43 PM
Shake hands with my hubby, Tony, I've given up trying to steer him away from the sweets.

Maybe you should both get a cap on that sweet tooth.   :2funny:

I really like the nice array of colors on your Menu Food painting and how it looks like the light is shining on the fruit and the letter H.  It all looks so Tony-ish.   :)


"The way to be happy," said Winston Churchill, "is to find something that requires the kind of perfection that's impossible to achieve and spend the rest of your life trying to achieve it."


Tony (ASM)

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Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 02:18:24 PM
lol! Lillian, us men know exactly how to treat ourselves! When I go shopping with Sue, she gets the meal items, fruit, veg, bread, etc. I go straight to the sweet dept! trolley gets half full before she spots me!  ;D
It's a bit awkward now though because I hav developed a wheat (Gluten. Not Glutten!) intolerance!


These doodles are my practice run and testing of my new marker pens, water colour and blendable pencils. I don't  care how I get my end result. Mixed media works for me! The marker pens + blendable pencils work very well!


I've got plenty of intentions this year but, I'm a bit, *strike* VERY lazy and, I lack self motivation to get on!
I've got a big bag of Xmas cards to cut up for ideas log for later this year. A illustrated book I want to do. Oil paintings I want to do. Drawing techniques to practice,  more practice with these Copic marker pens and, a living to earn!  :sweat: :yippee:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 02:20:54 PM by Tony (ASM) »
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


Tony (ASM)

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Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 02:24:42 PM
Ooh! Lillian, I like your last sentence, ' it looks Tony-ish'. Does that mean I have a distinctive, recognisable style developing? I've often wondered if I'd ever get one. It'd be great if I did but, I am a little erratic and swap and change like the wind!  :blush: ;D
''Don't spend life going forward in reverse, just glimpse the rear view mirror now and again then, focus on what lays ahead''.
(Tony. ASM 3rd July 2013)


 

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