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Pastel Painting => Pastel Drawing General Chat => Topic started by: lynn p. on March 11, 2015, 01:12:22 PM

Title: Shadow Colors
Post by: lynn p. on March 11, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
I just finished the portrait of Arthur which is in the encourager section.  A very experienced artist saw the painting and had this to say---which confuses me.  He said the light in the photo is cool and thus the lit part of the wall should be cooler and the shadow warmer (the opposite of what I have).  He also said that the subtle shadows in his beard should be warmer.  My confusion is, it was early morning and the only light was through a window so I assume that is "warm" but I see what he says about seeing the warm shadows in the photo.  Should they have photographed cooler?  Also, this is a made up background and I never thought about the cooler or warmer treatment.  Should I switch the background up?  ? He thinks the background is not consistent with the light in other parts of the painting.  This is very interesting to me.  What do you all know about this?
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: mea hamo pena on March 11, 2015, 01:20:49 PM
I think it really only matters what Arthur thinks of it, Lynn.

 To redo what you have there now would be a shame.  Hey, what about artistic license?

You can learn about the warmer/cooler shadow stuff for the next painting.   Maybe Nolan or Dennis explained it in one of the lessons that you haven't done yet.  Guys??

aloha

mea
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: sally13 on March 11, 2015, 01:33:32 PM
Mea you could not have said it better, thats exactly what i think too.

Lynn You have done a wonderful job of Arthur. :yippee: :yippee: :yippee: Be proud of him.
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: ncwren on March 11, 2015, 04:07:17 PM
Pfftttt!
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: lynn p. on March 11, 2015, 05:49:52 PM
You guys are funny.  I am not upset at all by his comments just trying to understand his points.  It does seem sensible that if cool light is present, the lighter areas of a background would be cooler.  I was just wondering how he figured out the light was cool--I assume by some warm shadows in the reference?  Nolan and Dennis, is it right to say that morning light is usually warm though?  I suppose I have just studied the colors I see but now that I am "inventing" some of the composition, I should pay attention to this stuff :)
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: dennis on March 11, 2015, 06:52:57 PM
Looks like my post did not go through for this.


There is nothing wrong with the shadows in your fabulous portrait painting.  :clap: :clap:
However, having said that there is truth in what he said. It just depends in what circumstances you will apply it - used a lot in landscapes.
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: lynn p. on March 12, 2015, 04:39:27 AM
Thanks for your comments Dennis.  I always struggle some with the cool and warm shadow idea because it all seems very relative.
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: C.Bodine on March 12, 2015, 04:45:25 AM
I think it's perfect! I wouldn't touch it!

Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: Val on March 12, 2015, 05:44:30 AM
Agree with Dennis and C.  O0   Don't touch it!  :nono:     ;D
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: lynn p. on March 12, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
I am not going to touch it, as I like it as it is.  The artist who commented was Ken Tiessen, a very accomplished pastel portrait artist, so I am trying to learn.   You can see his paintings on his website. http://kentiessenart.com (http://kentiessenart.com)  When I asked him to clarify, he said that it is a good idea in portraiture to choose cool or warm light and be consistent through out the painting (e.g., cool lights, warm shadows in skin and background).  I am going to think about this for future paintings.
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: artistforsaleorrent on March 13, 2015, 03:33:55 AM
Having viewed both the reference photos and the actual pastel, I find very little to critique. It's very well done, and true to the subject. You captured both his personality and his features. He will be pleased, no doubt. You might add more depth to the background next time if you're going with a plain featureless one, maybe make it appear several feet behind the subject rather than a closer one. Otherwise,  O0
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: ncwren on March 13, 2015, 08:22:14 AM
Lynn check out "Painting Beautiful Skin Tones with Color and Light in Oil, Pastel and Watercolor" by Chris Saper.
She gets into Kelvin temperatures for portrait painters.

I don't understand it and right now, it is way beyond my grasp-made my brain misfire a few times. I had to step away from it and decide that the lighting temp in my portraits is "Natalie" temp.  ;D
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: lynn p. on March 13, 2015, 12:48:33 PM
Thanks for your comments artistforsaleorrent!
Thanks for reminding me about her.  I have her portrait painting book and I'll go back and check that section out.  Your the best Natalie!
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: ncwren on March 13, 2015, 12:51:52 PM
 O0
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: Sue cq on March 20, 2015, 01:20:27 PM
The one thing about color that I have just really understood is that warm Colors come forward and cool Colors recede.  If you use cool Colors in your background it will give a greater feeling of space behind your subject!  I just painted The Deer in Nolan's Oil class.....so fun!.....and the antlers were not looking like I wanted!! :/. Blue in the shadow on the back antlers and poof!  That part  just moved right back where it belonged!!! 
Color is amazing!  Sue cq
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: mea hamo pena on March 20, 2015, 05:01:25 PM
Thanks for that tip, Sue C Q.  I am also working on the deer painting and have yet to tackle the antlers.  Now I feel more confident to try.

aloha

mea
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: Happychappy on April 09, 2015, 11:21:08 AM
Crumbs, there is just so much to be aware of and to know when learning to paint.  I can't keep up with it all .... my brain is no more like a sponge, I sometimes can't remember what I did yesterday  :2funny: :2funny: .




Lynn, your painting of Arthur is a masterpiece of which you can be so proud. 




Patricia
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: Danielle123 on April 09, 2015, 11:47:37 AM
Lynn you should be proud of your painting because it is a great piece of art

I feel the same as you Patricia,  there is so much to know, my brain is going to explode.   I though all blues were cold,  but Dennis mentioned that ultra marine is a warm blue (senior moment maybe). Colours are great.

Natalie i like your comment (Natalie temp)  that is the way I feel too a lot of times.
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: dennis on April 09, 2015, 02:17:09 PM
Danielle, all blues are cold O0  But having said that, some are just either colder or warmer in comparison to the one selected as a base colour.
It's the same in real life. It may be in the middle of winter but some days may just be that bit warmer or colder - but it still winter :2funny: 
Yesterday was very cold (-10deg C)(purple) compared to today (-1deg C)(cerulean) but the weatherman says it will be 5deg warmer tomorrow (4deg C)(ultramarine) - it's still snowing outside :whistle:
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: Val on April 10, 2015, 11:32:56 AM
 (purple)  :cold:     Sounds about right!  :2funny:
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: dennis on April 10, 2015, 11:51:52 AM
 :2funny: :2funny:  My message got through ;D
Title: Re: Shadow Colors
Post by: Danielle123 on April 10, 2015, 12:49:32 PM
: Dennis,  :2funny: you got me in stitches. I will have to keep that post close at hand as a reminder.    So i was kind of wright, i did here you say ultramarine  is warmer in the pastel snow scene with birch trees. 

 Val  :2funny:    yes we do kind of  turn purple when freezing  ;D i like you little icon.