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Other => Basic Concepts => Topic started by: thebryce on September 19, 2013, 10:47:07 PM

Title: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: thebryce on September 19, 2013, 10:47:07 PM
 I understand that linseed, walnut, safflower, poppy, spike of lavender, clove Oil all cause paint to dry at a progressavly slower pace.  If I only have an hour or two per week day and a few more on the week ends to paint and want to paint a picture of size, is there a certain oil mix that would benefit me?
 :painting:




Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Maryna on September 20, 2013, 03:00:53 AM
I use linseed oil, been using it every since I started painting and don't think I will ever switch over to anything else  ;)
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Germa on September 20, 2013, 03:21:44 AM
Me too, except for the things I want to dry much quicker, I use a quick drying medium for that.
I don't have a brand and don't know the ingredients since it's a medium that my art-store mix by themselves. 
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Harald on September 20, 2013, 06:51:42 AM
If you add some siccatif to the oil it will speed up the prosess. One band is SENNELIER siccatif de coutrtrai.

Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: thebryce on September 20, 2013, 07:04:13 AM
That is good to know for fast or normal dry additives but what if I need to have very slow dry becuse I want to work on a painting for several weeks? Is there an additive mix that would keep my painting from drying to early?
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 20, 2013, 07:37:39 AM
The Byrce,

In the oil painting class that I attend, we use Liquin Original exclusively.  It's a 5-week term (2.5 hours one day a week), so we are working on a painting for sometimes as long as 5-weeks.  We use the wet-on-wet technique.

Hope that helps you.

aloha

mal
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 20, 2013, 07:40:13 AM
Oh, Bryce, Winsor and Newton is the maker of Liquin Original.  It says on the bottle that it speeds drying and improves gloss.

We also use it as a sealer after the painting has dried.

aloha

mea (waiting for the paint to dry)
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Germa on September 20, 2013, 07:40:46 AM
I know safflower oil dries slower than linseed oil.

And the different colours have different drying times, burnt umber dries much quicker than b.e. alizarin crimson.
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: musika on September 20, 2013, 09:34:30 AM
Oh, Germa. I have been wondering what that b.e. is for over 5 minutes now. I just realised! It must be the Dutch version of e.g. - for example. (exempli gratia - yes, we still use Latin abbreviations)  :2funny:
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Germa on September 20, 2013, 09:38:38 AM
 :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
You're completely right, it's a Dutch version of e.g.
We say bijvoorbeeld and shorten it to b.v.
I just thought you would do it the same way... and I thought wrong.

Thanks for your help Ray.

In fact, I came back to tell thebryce that it doesn't matter if the paint dries on you. Just take care that you end a painting session without hard borders in the colours, just soften the edges and you can go back to your painting without any problem.
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: thebryce on September 20, 2013, 02:16:46 PM
So does it benefit me by adding a slow dry oil to a fast dry paint so all the paint is drying about the same?
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: thebryce on September 20, 2013, 02:19:47 PM
obviously these mediums were made for some purpose, right?
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Germa on September 21, 2013, 01:45:09 AM
They are made to make our lives difficult, in the fat over lean method. ;)

In fact, most of the paint I put on my canvasses are straight from the tubes, no medium added. Just for some technics, e.g. painting with a rigger brush, I add a medium.

When I know I cannot finish the painting, and maybe have to leave it for a week or so, I just stop at a 'logic' place or if necessary, I stop at a point that isn't that logic and in those cases I fade out every sharp edge so I can come back in it later without any problems, even when the paint dried on me.
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Leana on November 03, 2013, 02:05:24 PM
@Steven are you sure that is the entire recipe?  It appears to me that the Venice Turps (which is actually a resin is missing from the recipe)...unless you left it out on purpose  ;)

Here is the full recipe:  10 Parts Odorless Mineral Spirits, 5 parts Stand Oil, 1 part Refined linseed oil, 5 parts Venice Turpentine and 2 parts Oil of cloves.   <--this recipe is for most paints except Titanium white which dries much slower than other pigments...there is slight adjustment to the above recipe to accommodate the slower drying rate of the white. http://www.drawmispaint.com/supplylist (http://www.drawmispaint.com/supplylist)

Also note with the above recipe-->  works best with artists oils only containing pigment and linseed oil in the manufacturing process.  When used with paints that contains other oils etc...there is a reaction and the paint becomes sticky much quicker.  Well this is from various artists using the above medium and Mark said only to used oils made up out of pigment and linseed oil

I know the recipe above is a modification from one of Ralph Mayer's recipes ...which came out of a  book called "Artist's Handbook of Materials  Techniques written by Ralph Mayer.


I don't use the above recipe, but what I do to extent the open time period on my paint is this:  when my paint is mixed on my palette or tile (in my case)...I place it in a flatish tupperware container...put the lid on and put it in the freezer.  When I am ready to paint, I just take it out...leave it out with the lid on for about half an hour to an hour to "defrost" (the paint does not freeze, it's just very cold and I don't want any condensation forming on the paint blobs)...then it is as soft and wet as the day before. 


Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Steven on November 04, 2013, 02:05:15 AM
Hmm, Venice Turpentine...  I transposed the list and left out the Venice part...  big mistake!  Glad you caught that Leana, I would have felt terrible if someone had used my "modified" list and am going to delete the post to keep that from occurring!
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: nolan on November 04, 2013, 11:01:38 AM
don't delete the post, just modify it  O0
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Leana on November 04, 2013, 11:21:16 AM
Steven, I thought you might have left it out on purpose  ;) ...that you perhaps preferred it without the VT  :heeha: ...so I was uncertain  :blush:   How are you enjoying the mix without the Venice Turps though  :)


The freezer trick really works well to keep paint 'fresh'
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Steven on November 04, 2013, 12:00:34 PM
Nolan, since Leana did such a nice job of saying what I thought I was saying it made my post redundant, next time I'll modify though so follow on posts have continuity.

I was a bit embarrassed to say Leana  :blush:  since in my unfamiliarity with the difference between Venice Turpentine and spirits of gum turpentine I actually substituted the gum for the VT  :confused:  heh, it did say artist's spirit of gum turpentine on the label so I thought it was just a brand thing and not a completely different animal!  After your post I looked up the two and saw that indeed the VT is not a solvent at all...

So, I can't report on how the mix works sans VT, but I can say it worked, as you might suspect, a little too well with the spirit of gum turp.  The paint does stay wet much longer, I like having all my paints more or less the same consistency and it's just a bonus that the clove oil and piney smell from the spirit of gum turp actually make the mix smell nice!

Two of my paints didn't work well with the mix though, the burnt umber started out fine but started drying in the jar after a couple months.  The other bad actor was my cadmium orange... it was really runny and i suspect the turpentine might have been the culprit  I wasn't able to find the Venice turpentine locally so I have no comparison to what the actual mix is supposed to be like.  Will let you know when I find some.

Oh, and I was using part of my wine refrigerator for keeping my paints fresh through the summer.  The more I drank the more I thought about getting back to painting  ;)
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Leana on November 04, 2013, 01:08:41 PM
Steven, no need to feel embarrassed whatsoever  :D ... this is how we all learn...by sharing information  ;) and this is the best place for it.  There are tons of artists that think Venice Turpentine is a solvent...I think because of the word 'turpentine' in it. 

Burnt umber is a faster drying colour that's why Mark adds additional Oil of Cloves to the jar of the Burnt Umber.  Also the Cad. Yellow will need a little less medium, because it becomes much 'runnier' than the other colours and this is visible only the next day. Something to do with the Cadmiums and the medium...that is also most probably why your Cadmium orange was runny. 

The Italian paint manufacturer 'Maimeri' has a Trementina Veneta (Venetian Turpentine...which I believe is the same as Venice Turpentine...just names slightly different), maybe some of the art shops in your area will stock Maimeri...

Just in case you don't know...the Odorless Mineral Spirits dries slower (or rather evaporates slower) than Gum/Mineral Turpentine...that is also why it is used in that medium.

The overall mix of the Slow Drying Medium will be slightly thicker/viscous due to the Stand Oil and Venice Turpentine present compared to the use of Gum Turpentine in the mixture.

Wine refrigerator  :heeha: great place for storing your paints...

Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: thebryce on November 07, 2013, 02:39:44 PM
So what additives do I use for a background wash? I see that some painters just put down acrilic and then after it drys they cover it with linseed oil and paint  wet on wet.   I assume a wash of a more blenable oily paint mix would be acceptable too for backgrounds, right? I am not sure what thinner to use that would allow for that kind of wash and not eat at the paint stability in the future.
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: scouserl41 on November 07, 2013, 04:38:15 PM
Bryce,
Depends on what stage of the painting you are at. Generally I start with a watercolor pencil to lay out the basics on the board/canvas then I will do an underpainting to try basic colors and tonal levels. This could either be acrylic (Nice and opaque dries real fast) or oil paint in a neutral color thinned with terpentine to put in the outlines and darker areas. That is very thin and dries fast. Another approach is the neutral color thinned with oil medium which also dries fast, you can add colors to block in the basic painting.
Doing it lets me see how it sits on the board without using tons of paint, when I'm happy then I can lay on the thicker paint to finish the picture.
I paint the background first in the final go around and generally let it dry before putting in the foreground.
Remember you can paint oil over acrylic but NOT acrylic over oil.
Brian
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: thebryce on November 08, 2013, 10:48:09 AM
Is there a difference between paint thinned with terpentine, or linseed oil or a mineral spirit of some sort?
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: scouserl41 on November 08, 2013, 04:59:52 PM
I'm not an expert nor did I play one on TV!
I was told at my local class not to use terpentine for thinning oils as a normal practice because ir's a solvent (as are the other 2 you mention) and in time can break down the paint and lead to flaking.
Commercial paint mediums will "thin" the paint but not damage the paint.
I've stuck to that, I have no evidence to contradict it so unless I get some I'll keep going that way,
Brian
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Germa on November 09, 2013, 05:42:10 AM
Is there a difference between paint thinned with terpentine, or linseed oil or a mineral spirit of some sort?

There's a big difference, terps make your paint more lean, oils make your paint more fat.

I never use any medium, but linseed oil or a fast drying 'ready bought' medium which makes the paint more fat. And I just use them, when my paint is a bit too thick.
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: nolan on November 13, 2013, 12:23:56 PM
never use turps to thin your paint, only oil or a reputable brand of painting medium. You get "thin" painting mediums which especially designed to do the background washes you have in mind  O0
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: thebryce on November 13, 2013, 02:39:51 PM
I tried my 1st oil painting last night. It was a disaster. Oil paint everywhere. I tried liquin original and then the impasto. Then tips to wash off the mess.  Nothing looked right. The mediums were wierd. Perhaps I did not need them but I wanted fast dry. Nothing dry yet. How long does impasto take?
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: Germa on November 13, 2013, 11:55:51 PM
That depends on the weather, the humidity and how thick your layer of paint is. I painted very thick flowers with the knife, the paint + impasto were touch dry within a week. (think of a half cm. thick layer of paint).
Title: Re: Artist oil paint additives
Post by: nolan on November 14, 2013, 11:32:22 AM
 ;D oil paint takes long to dry - with a drying medium added, it can still take days