Paint Basket Member Art Forum

Other => Copyright Questions => Topic started by: ImBatman on May 05, 2013, 02:35:20 PM

Title: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: ImBatman on May 05, 2013, 02:35:20 PM
Dennis,

Your watercolours tutorial material all says "You may NOT sell the artwork produced from following the course."

My question is:

If I use one of your tutorials, but create my own template to work from them (the photograph that is), are they okay to sell?

I ask, because my sister showed the photo of the sea turtle I did to her boss and she asked if I would be willing to sell, and how much for. My sister explained about the whole not being able to sell them because... situation. So she asked if I could do another one and how much would I charge.

I looked up the Copyright Council of Australias site and an info sheet says "Copyright protects particular works, NOT the ideas, information, styles or techniques used in creating the works."

So I guess the question I really have is, is it the use of your template that creates the copyrighting issue? I guess it is the phrase "from following the course" that I find the confusing part of the original statement.

If I create my own template and use your instructions or what I learned from the course then am I technically producing something "from following the course"?

Sorry to bring this up again, but it is wording of that statement that has always confused :idiot2: me a bit.

Why does this damn issue have to be so convoluted?

Batman.
ps I have looked at other posts and the ones I read didn't really answer the question outright. And I'm not in the financial situation to take that super complex one to a solicitor for - after all I've never sold anything.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Val on May 05, 2013, 05:48:33 PM
I'll leave the final clarification to Dennis, but my understanding is if the painting is Dennis' original design (ie: the lesson template) it cannot be sold.
If the painting is of your own design regardless of topic, it is your copyright, and you are free to do with it as you wish.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: ImBatman on May 05, 2013, 06:05:47 PM
Val


I  was hoping that was the interpretation too. Same photo, but my own outlines from it etc...


By the way, it was your photo, would I be free to use it? I'm going to see if she can find a royalty free one that she likes.

That was a separate issue though.

It was the wording of the disclaimer that I found a little confusing - ie the "from following the course" part.

Tutorial materials (template) - already understood. If I create a template from any turtle, and follow the course instructions... Is that "from following the course"?

The whole copyright thing is stupid. Like how did Warhol get away with the soup cans? Surely someone designed them... But he becomes famous.

Batman.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: dennis on May 06, 2013, 12:44:56 AM
A quick reply: you may take any other photograph, other than the photograph used for the lesson or in the PDF's, and then use the techniques demonstrated in the lesson to produce your own painting to be used as you see fit.

You may not use the course painting for sale. It has to be substantially - at least 75% -modified before you may paint and sell. Just to change colours does not constitute a change.

I have a full explanation on copyright in the Forum section - Anything Arty page 15

Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: ImBatman on May 06, 2013, 12:56:41 AM
Thanks Dennis,

I knew about not selling the course paintings (and had tried deciphering that legal mumbo jumbo you referred to.

Just wasn't sure about if I did another one (if she can dig one up) and referring back to the tutorials for the methods when doing the real thing crossed the "using the tutorials" boundary.

What's even more fun about this copyright stuff is, as I said, I looked up the Aussie Copyright site and it says not only do you have to take the law as written into account, but you also have to take into account how the courts have interpreted it previously!
 :hang:

Batman.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: stoney on May 06, 2013, 01:07:00 PM
[]

The whole copyright thing is stupid. Like how did Warhol get away with the soup cans? Surely someone designed them... But he becomes famous.

Batman.

I suspect the copyright 'holes' which existed at that time were closed.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: stoney on May 06, 2013, 01:29:12 PM
Thanks Dennis,

I knew about not selling the course paintings (and had tried deciphering that legal mumbo jumbo you referred to.

Just wasn't sure about if I did another one (if she can dig one up) and referring back to the tutorials for the methods when doing the real thing crossed the "using the tutorials" boundary.

What's even more fun about this copyright stuff is, as I said, I looked up the Aussie Copyright site and it says not only do you have to take the law as written into account, but you also have to take into account how the courts have interpreted it previously!
 :hang:

Batman.

If you were able to locate every single case, you'd find contradictions.  In short; "You Can't Get There From Here".

I would think to reach the 75% change level you'd have to change; Time of Day (sun angle), Turtle size, orientation, shell patterns, and action(s), number of objects in view (maybe a couple of children are observing or playing), beach type and sand patterns, background, cloudy vs. sunny day.  That's what comes to mind.

Changes all which could lead to unknowingly breaking copyright of another artists' work.  Translation: No matter what you do, you're screwed.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: lynn p. on May 06, 2013, 04:05:21 PM
Hi Batman--I found this on Morguefile and is copyright free if it helps you create your own drawing.  I cropped it a bit.  Not as beautiful as Val's pic but might make a good painting.


Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: ImBatman on May 07, 2013, 03:00:00 AM
Thanks Lynn.

I have found one on my preferred site (PaintMyPhoto - I like it better than MorgueFile, I find a bit more variety there. Plus you get to post your effort for the photographer to see!)
Due to that site's copyright ( :tickedoff: ) I can only post a link to it. http://paintmyphoto.ning.com/photo/flying-underwater
 (http://paintmyphoto.ning.com/photo/flying-underwater)
I've cropped the pic on a rotated angle, just cutting the tips of each flipper off and have the face top left of the picture. Not quite as zoomed in as Dennis's but to show a lot more of that glorious pattern on the back.

Hopefully the lady will go for it.

Then I have to work out what to charge. If she goes for it, it will be my first ever!

And of course I will post it when it is done.

Batman.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Germa on May 07, 2013, 03:11:26 AM
Most photos you find on wiki are free, for example this one:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caretta_caretta_060417w2.jpg (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Caretta_caretta_060417w2.jpg)

Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Val on May 07, 2013, 07:34:42 AM
That is a beautiful photo Bman. Shows the colours of the carapice beautifully. The markings are like fingerprints, no two are identical.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Germa on May 07, 2013, 07:55:41 AM
I couldn't see the photo without registering, and I didn't register, but maybe it's worth to become a member over there?
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: musika on May 07, 2013, 07:58:57 AM
Yes, register. It has some great photos.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Denise808 on May 07, 2013, 09:11:35 AM
Yes, I think it's worth it Germa - check it out ....  :)
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: dennis on May 07, 2013, 12:11:13 PM
Wikimedia may be copyright free but you still have to observe the conditions under the section "Some Rights Reserved" about attribution and sharing.

Read these carefully or you may get into trouble.

Each different site has their own rules so read and understand them thoroughly before using the photographs even if they are stated to be copyright free.

I am just trying to help you not to get into trouble. Infringement of copyright can turn out to be very costly.




Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: ImBatman on May 07, 2013, 12:28:29 PM
To save the bother:

"Share Alike — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one. "

If you produce something from their photos, you have to allow for your productions to be copied and or altered too.

Batman.
ps. just let me say, that you are free to use any of the photos I post here for any use you want. But only if it is a Tuesday. On the fourth of the month. When the moon is made of green cheese. And a monkey happens to run down the middle of the street while you are producing your artwork. And you can only sell it from a gallery on the left hand side of any given street...
 :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

Just kidding.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Val on May 07, 2013, 06:39:45 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap:     :2funny: :2funny:
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Germa on May 08, 2013, 12:52:37 AM
 :D  :2funny:
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Lillian on May 08, 2013, 04:38:24 AM
 :2funny: Cute, Batman!  ...love your sense of humour!  You're just as confusing as copyright issues!   :confused:
The very safest way to produce our art is always to take our very own photos, just like you do, Batman.   So generous of you to share them here.
My camera has been busy taking photos of our magnolia in the back yard.  I'll share some and anyone is free to use them with no complicated strings attached.
No time to  :painting:  these days, too busy enjoying the beautiful spring weather among other things.  I love to see what everyone is doing and of course, I have to visit the forum to relieve my withdrawal symptoms.   :)
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Zach on May 08, 2013, 08:46:45 AM
I heard someone say once that its best to paint/draw from your own photos because when you were there taking a that photo you got the sense of the temperature, wind, exact lighting and stuff like that that you wouldnt get from another persons picture; it makes sense. 
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Germa on May 08, 2013, 09:09:04 AM
I think you have a point there Zac.
For example, it feels a bit odd for me, to paint mountains and trees I've never seen or will see, because they don't exist, anywhere I go.

I know how my own surrounding feels, I know how life is, in my imaginations, and I think, maybe, in the future, it's easier to give that feeling to a painting, when you have experienced it yourself.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Zach on May 08, 2013, 09:33:39 AM
Exactly.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: stoney on May 08, 2013, 11:13:25 AM
I heard someone say once that its best to paint/draw from your own photos because when you were there taking a that photo you got the sense of the temperature, wind, exact lighting and stuff like that that you wouldnt get from another persons picture; it makes sense.

Don't forget to take notes and quick sketches.  I've read one person's got a neat little tip which has saved many paintings.  Its easy to forget what the sun position is.  He places a dot at the canvas edge/side to mark where the sun position is.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: Zach on May 08, 2013, 12:06:03 PM
I do that to sometimes when drawing still lifes.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: nolan on May 09, 2013, 01:02:27 PM
your own photos are always the best, but it isn't always possible, so it is good to know how to use other peoples photos without running into copyright issues. Luckily we show how to do this often in our classes O0
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: ImBatman on May 09, 2013, 02:02:33 PM
Yeah, there aren't too many Grand Canyons, Big Ben's, Taj Mahal's wild lions etc Kiwi birds etc in Australia. And vice versa for our animals and landmarks.

Unless you are counting on it for a living, I wish people could be a little more, share and share alike.

Batman.
Title: Re: ANOTHER Copyright and tutorials question
Post by: ncwren on May 10, 2013, 06:46:33 AM
It is a good class Nolan!  It's still great to use photos from all resources as reference.   

I'm glad you brought this question up Batman-it helps steer me to actually designing my own compositions.   ;)