Paint Basket Member Art Forum

Mixed Media => Mixed Media General Chat => Topic started by: nolan on September 17, 2016, 03:24:57 PM

Title: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: nolan on September 17, 2016, 03:24:57 PM
The official definition of mixed media is :
Quote
a variety of media used in an entertainment or work of art.

but what if you draw the outlines with pencil, then paint with oil or acrylic - is that not then also mixed media?
or what if you paint a watercolour painting and add a few dots of white gouache at the end for highlights - is that still a watercolor painting or should it be classified as mixed media.

Have you say on the topic, and also ask you questions regarding what is considered mixed media, below
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 17, 2016, 05:10:24 PM
Thanks for setting up the space and getting the ball rolling on this topic, Nolan.

Quite a while ago, I entered a watercolor monthly challenge and said that I had used watercolor pencils to highlight it.  It then had to be disqualified and , I believe, it got moved to mixed media.

My thought is that watercolor should be watercolor no matter whether it comes from the tip of a pencil or from a tube, or from a cake!  If I were to brush the watercolor from the tip of the pencil and then apply it to the paper with that same brush, would it have remained a watercolor piece?

I guess what I am asking is -- Isn't WATER the medium, not the brush, or pencil, or palette knife that is used to apply it?

aloha

mea

Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Annie. on September 17, 2016, 06:11:30 PM
I have thought a lot about this.  Used to think it was simple, when I thought mixed meant using pen, paints, plus gluing something in it!

I have come to decide that it should be base on the medium used (i.e. what supports the pigments), so water, oil, acrylic, pastels, graphite, etc.  Then when there is more than 1 we can say mixed. 

But perhaps the small fraction of a non-prominent medium should not make it mixed.   E.g. few pencil strokes in a watercolour, an acrylic simple background of an oil painting (like 'My first tulip'), 2 drops of guache in a watercolor, etc.

The instrument is part of the technique, and should not be a consideration to define a medium.  So to me watercolour pencils, watercolour tubes, and watercolour tubs are all watercolour... and the medium is water.

So for our monthly challenges, it always intregued me that colour pencils and graphites feel under the same labels.  In the case of the monthly challenge, it is based on the instruments... so pencils and pens, brushes and palette knifes, then mixed can be a combo of media or mixed techniques.

Saying that, any definitions may go for a competition.  It is up to the organizers to set up the rules.

My daughter had a most beautiful painting disqualified because it was painted on a board canvas (those Nolan uses often for painting lessons) they would only accept stetched canvas... okay, except they did not tell ahead of time, there were a number of desappointed artists at the opening.

I fear they maybe as many definitions as they are PB members...
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Sheryl on September 17, 2016, 08:37:12 PM
To me Mixed Media means something different..I would use not only paints but a paste,lay down papers even fabric if need be thus building up layers to create the effect I required. I would then use found objects to create another visual even using print methods...and then I may de-construct the painting altogether. I tend to work in abstract
 . :painting: :)
sheryl
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: OZartlover on September 18, 2016, 03:34:59 AM
I think this is a very good description of Mixed Media.  To me it involves, papers, gel medium, stamping, layers of texture by various means of media and raised embellishments or fabrics/lace etc.  The simple use of watercolour pencils for an outline doesn't fit Mixed Media at all, as you can use the brush straight onto the pencil and get the same result.
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 18, 2016, 08:08:37 AM
Good conversation growing here on this topic.

Hey, fellow PB-ers, what do you think Mixed Media is?

aloha

mea
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Annie. on September 19, 2016, 01:07:28 AM
Maybe when I dip my oil paintbrush in my coffee!   :2funny:

Interesting that I use to think it was the mix of paint with other crafty stuff.  I think I change with a previous discussion on PB and what type of work was submitted on the challenge.  Once I submitted on the mixed medium 'the fern' topic, and I used glitter and paper to the painting, making it 3D.
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Val on September 19, 2016, 09:46:41 AM
This was a tough topic when I was first setting up the challenges. Using any 2 or more mediums would constitute it being mixed media. Pretty self explanatory.   :) That was the simple part. Where all of the controversy came into play was when the idea was brought forward that literally any use of anything other than the single chosen medium would put it into the mixed media category. What was being referenced here was the use of even a pencil outline would negate it being 'pure'.   :doh: Which when taken in that microscopic outlook means that the majority of world renowned painters/masters, both past and present, were not as they were professed to be...and in fact were multi media artists!  :faint: Where does one draw the line?  :confused:

I shall endeavour to shed some light on how I finally made the various decisions for our challenges. Keeping in mind that I wanted a fair and easy to understand  system for all of our members from, and especially, the complete neophyte, right through to our master artists. Our challenges were set up to be a 'friendly' challenge, not an art competition.

Keeping that in mind, I am working on a special challenge which will be added in December's line-up. It will only be run during the month of December.  :-X Sorry, not even the 'Clark Boys' are privy to this one!  ^-^

Now back on topic.....

Our original 'painting' challenge consisted of 1/watercolour, 2/acrylic, 3/oil. It was very easy back then, 3 mediums....pick one!  :heeha:   A simple outline which was not to be an integral part of the finished work was deemed acceptable.
The original  'drawing' challenge was even easier..... 1/pencil (graphite)  :yippee:    ;D   This section has also grown to encompass more types of drawing medium.

That brings us full circle back to the multi media. The simplest to explain.... use a minimum of any two + mediums..... and Have at it!!!  :yippee:

For the sake of simplicity, as the introduction of new mediums started popping up on the forum, They were  slotted into the various challenges. True, quite a few actually fit in more than one category, but the friendly challenge was still the objective, so tried to keep things as simple as possible.

Feel free to contact me with any queries or suggetions/comments. Go on then, I can take it!  :knuppel2:    :2funny:
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Annie. on September 19, 2016, 10:45:40 AM
I was waiting for your response Val, knew it would be interesting to read  :coffee:

Truly an interesting open question, isn't it?  With no right or wrong answers.

But why taunt us with the Dec challenge?  :confused:  :'(  Now how will I sleep at night???  I fear we may have to use kitchen food or make our pigments with outdoor plants (indoor in Canada   ;) ) and dig up clay from under the snow, having to set a fire for a few hours to taugh the frozen soil   ::)   

Oh my, oh my, my imagination is running off ahead of me  >:D
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Val on September 19, 2016, 03:00:00 PM
Keep your eye out for the October newsletter.... I'll be passing along the announcement to Mea.  :whistle:
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Annie. on September 20, 2016, 04:39:32 AM
Hum... Oct for Dec?    Now my brain is spinning like  :crazy2:

Chat in October, tata for now.
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 20, 2016, 08:02:07 AM
Thanks, Val, for that detailed explanation.

I am still stuck with my original question, though, about watercolor pencils. The pigment from them to me would be the same as the pigment from a tube or pan of watercolor paints. 

I have far less experience in art than most of you but my brain says watercolor is the medium no matter whether the color comes from tube, pan, or a pencil tip.   If I were to use some pan colors and some tube colors on the same painting, would that be mixed media?

How do others fell on this question?

aloha

mea (I think my college logic professor would be proud of me right now.)




Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Annie. on September 20, 2016, 09:45:15 AM
What about this for logic?
Paint = medium + pigment

Media (the plurial of medium) are:  water, oil, acrylic/latex, chack, gum/wax, etc.

To me, saying that watercolour pencils and watercolor tubes makes a mixed media painting, would equate to saying that using oil paints with walnut oil and oil paints with linseed oil created a mixed media painting.

What are the experts saying?  I cannot wait for the Clarks to jump in... they must be waiting to see what we come up with.

Mea, this is a great question... hope you can put one up every month.
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Steve Weatherwax on September 21, 2016, 04:33:28 PM
I agree with Mea, watercolor is watercolor regardless of if it comes from a pencil wherever. The medium is water. And the belong in the painting category. But how about water soluble graphite? It is used just like a watercolor pencil. Its just that it is monochromatic. Would this  put it in the painting category or graphite?

My concern is colored pencils. But just because they are in pencil form, they have more in common with pastels and other media of the painting category than they do with graphite/charcoal/pen.

It is also my opinion that any graphite drawing that includes either charcoal or carbon (including 9xxb pencils) should go in mixed media. Also, a pen and ink drawing that contains a wash should also go in mixed media. Colored pencils belong in the painting category. Thoughts?

Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 21, 2016, 05:05:22 PM
Wow, Steve, this is a really complex issue.   Everyone's opinion seems to make sense. 


Maybe we will need a challenge category for "I'm Not Sure What Category This Belongs In."

Lots of well thought-out contributions to this thread.

Maybe there is no definitive answer.

aloha

mea
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: dennis on September 21, 2016, 06:20:48 PM
A short quick reply:
Pure watercolour uses the white of the paper to act for the tonal ranges. More pigment less of the paper shines through - that is the magic of watercolour.

Gouache, on the other hand, even though it is water based, is not pure watercolour paint because opaque white has been added to it - you can even add a very light colour on top of a dark colour, which you cannot do with pure watercolour painting. That's why serious watercolour competitions disallow gouache, except for only touch ups such as  highlights etc. The moment you actually start painting or mixing gouache into the picture, then it becomes a mixed media.

As a matter of interest: It does not matter whether the medium is watercolour, oils, acrylic, pastels, etc, they all use the same pigment. It is just the binding medium that changes. It is the binder that designates which medium it falls into.

Watercolour pencils are pretty much pan watercolours inside a stick, as the binder is water soluble. They are just not convenient for large washes. Best used for small sections in a large painting.
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 21, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Dennis,

I am so new to art that I honestly don't understand the whole "binder"  part.   Can you please give a couple of examples that will help me understand this statement:

It does not matter whether the medium is watercolour, oils, acrylic, pastels, etc, they all use the same pigment. It is just the binding medium that changes. It is the binder that designates which medium it falls into.

Mahalo.  I value your input on this important question.

aloha

mea
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: nolan on September 22, 2016, 02:41:05 AM
for me even painting the underpainting in acrylic, then painting over that in oil is not mixed media. The acrylic was simply there to cover the white of the canvas, which is after all also covered in acrylic. The actual painting work that created the part we call the artwork is oil, so it is an oil painting.

To be a mixed media painting you need vast amounts of the "important" parts of the artwork to be in more than one medium, like we did in the mixed media course. There we used acrylic paint exclusively, but also large amounts of other items. Those items were integral to the final outcome of the artwork so "counted" as part of the media used to create the artwork. That made those artworks mixed media.

Painting a watercolour painting and then adding a few dots of acrylic / watercolour pencil or gouache on top for highlights is not a mixed media artwork. It is a watercolour.

So for me the "meat and potatoes" of the artwork needs to be in two or more media to qualify as a mixed media artwork
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 22, 2016, 06:28:00 AM
Thanks, Nolan.  I totally agree with you.  You have explained in simple terms that make sense.

aloha

mea
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Val on September 22, 2016, 09:32:33 AM
 :eyesclosed:          :surrender:          :2funny:
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Val on September 24, 2016, 03:43:42 AM
 >:D   Have to show you this one..... do love to stir the pot a bit more!  :angel:

Watercolour Graphite!!! (3rd item down)
 
http://www.lawrence.co.uk/shop/Graphite-Putty.html?utm_source=Sentori&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=September+16 (http://www.lawrence.co.uk/shop/Graphite-Putty.html?utm_source=Sentori&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=September+16)

I think this would be really fun to muck about with!
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Steve Weatherwax on September 24, 2016, 05:51:03 AM
Val, give me a ladle and I'll help you stir! :)

I'm attaching a real quick, primitive tonal study I just did using Faber Castell graphite aquarelle pencils...2B and 8B.

I've had these for a while and this was a great time to pull them out and try them. From what I can tell they seem to act a lot like watercolors...just no color. I drew the image and then went over it with a brush dipped in water. I think I would have had better control if I made a puddle and adjusted the tone by adding more or less water.

So, vis-a-vis the challenges, would this go in the graphite or painting category?


 
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Gita on September 24, 2016, 06:47:23 AM
Till now I did not really know what to add to this thread, I find Nolans definition of mixed media so logical.
Steve, your w/c grphite pencils sound exiting. :clap:
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Kathysutterlin on September 24, 2016, 08:05:23 AM
 :heeha: Steve and Val, That looks like a fun medium. I really like the look of mono chrome. The graphite looks like it could be a drawing or a painting depending on how you apply it.  O0
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Steve Weatherwax on September 24, 2016, 09:03:37 AM
Just drawing with it makes a picture very similar to regular graphite pencils, but I think using it like watercolor paint would make a very beautiful graphite painting. I don't believe the pencils come in a tone less  than HB, but that could be duplicated by adding more water.
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 24, 2016, 11:46:08 AM
Steve,

I love this look - simplicity.  Since the specialness of this painting is the use of the water and brush, my thought is that it is a painting.  Hope Val agrees.

I have tried washing drawings with just water over the graphite pencils I always use, but the "AQUARELLE" seems to be a step up.  I will look for some. Where did you get yours?

aloha

mea
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 24, 2016, 12:17:00 PM
Was so excited about trying the water-soluable graphite so went to Amazon to order:

1 of: Artgraf Water Soluble Graphite Pencil 2 Pk   $6.37

1 of: ArtGraf Water-Soluble Graphite Tin  $13.73

1 of: ArtGraf Water-Soluble Graphite Sticks 2pk    $8.47

1 of: Derwent Watersoluble Sketching Pencils, Metal Tin, 6 Count (0700837)    $13.10

Prices are USD - Shipping through Amazon prime so no charge, I hope.

aloha

mea
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Steve Weatherwax on September 24, 2016, 01:14:17 PM
Mea, I got these at Dick Blick. Set of five includes a watercolor brush. Just over $10. Amazon has these also for about a buck more.
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Val on September 24, 2016, 02:13:25 PM
 :eek:   Uh-oh.... I've done it to myself haven't I?   :doh:    When will I ever learn?   :banghead:    :stress:     :2funny:

Ok Steve, I will add "Watercolour / Water Soluble Graphite" to the Painting Challenge. It will be considered as a single painting medium in its own right in the challenge.

    :eyesclosed:    I know, I've just opened Pandora's Box!  :faint:   
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Annie. on September 25, 2016, 04:09:00 PM
Val, it used to be so simple.  Now I am getting confusier 😆 (is this a word?  I sort of like it) by the minute. :banghead: :crazy2: :tickedoff:
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Val on September 25, 2016, 04:44:38 PM
Val, it used to be so simple.  Now I am getting confusier 😆 (is this a word?  I sort of like it) by the minute. :banghead: :crazy2: :tickedoff:


(http://d326oobcc22bax.cloudfront.net/content/125927/1512039.gif)    You and me both Annie..... you and me both!   (http://d326oobcc22bax.cloudfront.net/content/129055/1514100.gif)
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: BarryC on September 25, 2016, 06:51:49 PM

Colored pencils - i've been getting into this and have joined the Colored Pencil Club. It seems every one invloved in the world of colored pencils call it painting, not drawing. I think this is because of the amount of blending and mixing of colors that goes on.

What about if I use oil based CP, or wax based CP, will that make a difference? Personally I think the binder should be irrelevant.

So do I enter a piece using CP under painting or drawing? It does not seem right to go under drawing as CP is clearly a different media than graphite - just because you hold the tool the same does not make them equal. If that was the case, then all those who use a brush would fall under the same catagory.

If we want to capture "pure" in our categories, then oil is oil, graphit is graphit and each media should have its own catagory. However, adding any two different media is mixed.  But the problem is that we sometimes use another media because the main media just can't do what we want, like adding a highlight the way we want it.

But since we are amoung friends and not redefining the world, Perhaps, as a suggestion, we could think about our catagories not being pure, but maybe some percentage of pure, like 90, 95,98% of one media, then it goes in its catgory.  So if a jellyroll is used to add a highlight, or a different media used to fill in a background quickly,  but it's not used extensively then it could remain in the catagory. Mixed media would remain for those who relish, create their art using mutiple media intentionally for the effect they're looking to achieve.

Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: mea hamo pena on September 25, 2016, 09:38:52 PM
Barry,

I think your last paragraph has really defined a sensible solution - at least regarding PB Forum categories and the challenges.  Everyone's contributions to the conversation seem to be of like mind.  Not sure what percentage would be appropriate, though.

Val, would  Barry's explanation work for the challenges? 

aloha

mea
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Val on September 26, 2016, 11:35:31 AM
I shall take this under advisement.  ^-^      :stress:
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Annie. on September 26, 2016, 07:02:29 PM
Barry,
This is one of those topics where the more you learn and think about it... the more you realize that you know very little.  Ignorance can be blessful at times  :crazy2:

P.S. but you make a good point of course
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: Kathysutterlin on September 27, 2016, 02:32:08 PM

Colored pencils - i've been getting into this and have joined the Colored Pencil Club. It seems every one invloved in the world of colored pencils call it painting, not drawing. I think this is because of the amount of blending and mixing of colors that goes on.



Colored Pencil Club? That sounds very interesting, Barry. Can you tell us more?  :D
Title: Re: What is Mixed Media?
Post by: BarryC on September 29, 2016, 03:39:58 PM
On facebook, search Colored Pencils Club